December 2011, Cover Stories, Viewpoints

Along the Watchtower

By Joanie Meharry and Shaharzad Akbar   Sun, Nov 13, 2011

At the ancient Buddhist monastery of Mes Aynak I was introduced to Omar Sultan, the Deputy Minister of Information and Culture. It was a sweltering summer day and I had just returned from a walk along the adjacent wall and citadel. The hillside had recently been de-mined and was now being excavated by a team of national and international archeologists. Sultan was sitting regally in a chair at the base of the monastery, receiving updates from team members about the ongoing rescue excavation. The site was scheduled to be destroyed in the next few years in order to make way for copper mining in the valley; an important multi-million dollar investment for the country. A trained archeologist himself, Sultan motioned for me to sit next to him as he began to recount a journey he had made to survey the same site several decades earlier; a time long before the artifacts were looted, landmines were planted, and the site was threatened by mineral extraction.

He had left Afghanistan during the civil unrest in the late-1970s but returned in 2002 to take up his post at the ministry. Reputed to be one of the most active watchdogs of Afghanistan’s cultural heritage, I wanted to sit with him again to record his experiences, thoughts on the current projects at the ministry, and insights into the present and future of Afghanistan’s cultural heritage.

A couple of months later we met again at his office in the Ministry of Information and Culture. Books were strewn about his office and maps of archeological sites were piled high on a table in the corner. This time I was accompanied by a film crew and my colleague Shaharzad Akbar, who was going to conduct the interview in Sultan’s native tongue of Dari, so little was lost in translation. What follows is a translation of that interview.

- Joanie Meharry

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SA: Can we start by hearing about your education background? Where did you study and how did you get interested in cultural heritage issues?

OS: I went to Greece in 1969 for the first time. I studied archeology and history of art and philosophy. After finishing the four year period, I worked on the Hellenistic period in Afghanistan and its impact on the country, and I wrote my dissertation on this topic. I have always been interested in culture and art. I liked it since childhood. I liked music. I also liked history a lot. And as you know, Afghanistan is a very rich country when it comes to culture heritage. These interests motivated me and I studied in this field.

SA: After finishing your education, did you return directly to Afghanistan?

OS: Yes. After finishing my studies I returned to Afghanistan. In 1976-1978, unfortunately, the Saur coup happened. After that, I returned to Greece. From there, I traveled to other countries. Then, in 2002, I was invited to return here by the government of the Islamic Republic and Dr. Sayeed Makhdum Rahin, who was Minister of Information and Culture then and is also now. In 2005, I returned to Kabul permanently. I have been the Deputy Minister of Information and Culture since then.

SA: Did you maintain your relationship with cultural heritage in Afghanistan when you were outside Afghanistan? How?

OS: Yes. I taught voluntarily. I also worked. I taught in USA, at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. I also had contacts with UNESCO in my workplace, and I was in touch with my friends here in Afghanistan. Basically, I never lost interest in Afghanistan. I did some work on cultural heritage and culture and the art of Afghanistan.

SA: In which period do you think Afghanistan’s cultural heritage suffered most?

OS: Well, it was during the destructive wars that occurred in Afghanistan. I think it started in the ’80-’90 decades. As you know, when I returned in 2002, the museum had no roof, window, or ceiling. This was really saddening to me. Because I had studied in Greece, the Minister of Culture in Greece in 2002 had been one of my classmates. I had a trip to Greece and they sent almost $750,000 with their representative for the museum you see now. Of course, other countries also got interested then and the museum was reconstructed, and is now a matter of pride for Afghanistan. Afghanistan’s National Museum was amongst the richest in terms of its possession of artifacts/pieces. But unfortunately, some of these pieces were looted during the civil wars. We are fortunate to have signed the 1972 convention with UNESCO, which allowed for some of the pieces, from 11,000 to 14,000, to return to their original home.

SA: You have constantly been in Afghanistan since 2002?

OS: Yes, since 2002. I came in the month of February based on the invitation of the Government of Afghanistan at the time. From then on until 2005, I was the cultural adviser to the Ministry of Information and Culture. I would go out (of Afghanistan) occasionally and then return. I moved here permanently in 2005.

We have some achievements: in museums particularly, in archeology, in preservation of historical sites, music, theatre, film… I think more work has been done in other areas as well. But to the extent it should be done, to realize my own wishes, we haven’t done that much. I am telling you this myself. But we have been 90% successful in our work.

SA: During the current year, with which other important projects have you been engaged?

OS: We have urban development projects, sorry, development/expansion of the ministry. But buildings and such are not really related to my work. Currently, we work mostly in Ghazni and in Mes Aynak; these are the two projects we are working on. The work that needed three or four years to be done is already done by our archeologists. They finished it in eight months. Our accomplishments in Ghazni: we have fixed ten historical buildings/sites. We are hopeful to fix 32 historical buildings by 2013. The work is ongoing. Our work is going on intensely in the Mes Aynak excavations as well. It is going really well, very successfully.

The news-making remains of the Buddhist monastery of Mes Aynak.  Recovery of the finds at this site is a national cultural priority for Afghanistan. Photo by Joanie Meharry.

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An archaeologist points out one of the major finds at Mes Aynak. Photo by Joanie Meharry.

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The perimeter of Mes Aynak. Photo by Joanie Meharry. 

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SA: To what extent is insecurity a problem for cultural heritage and how does it contribute to smuggling (of cultural heritage pieces)?

OS: Well, these things are really important. Insecurity. I am hopeful. If you and I think there is a tomorrow, there is certainly hope. There are many problems. The issue of smuggling of cultural heritage is a huge problem. We have taken some steps regarding this. In 2003, 012 legion (a military unit), or the legion for preservation of historical or archeological sites was initiated. There are 500 people in it. We are hopeful for and we want 2,000 soldiers in 3-4 years. We have requested 500 more soldiers this year and we hope that will be accepted.

The smuggling has been to some extent curtailed, but not 100%. I can never claim that. We have programs that will, for example, raise awareness among Afghan nationals about their cultural heritage. In the museum, they have done something so that children come; young people from the university come, so they are interested.  Almost 300-350 people come every day.

I personally think that we have lost our national identity or cultural identity in the past 30 years. This is what I think. I don’t say this because I am a culture and cultural heritage person and am interested in it. But I think if this nation is to be reunited, it is through culture. Because, as you see, if you tell every Afghan about their museum or historical pieces or historical sites, they are united. Then why not work through this? And I think, of course this will be a long path. Creating a culture is hard work. It is not like constructing a building in 3 or 4 years. If we do not have the culture to live in those buildings, our work is cut out for us. In this area, as I said, we are raising awareness of the nation, so that the nation says no (to looting). These cultural artifacts, this cultural heritage is mine. But you can’t do anything (preserve the cultural heritage) by force. Guns and cannons are not the way. We must form an understanding with them (nation). Look at the little children. If you teach them or if they go to a museum, the children have an impact on their parents. The parents have 3-4 other friends. In this way, slowly, the impact increases.

For example, we should have museums in important provinces. We have 10 now. We have to increase this because in Afghanistan, Kabul does not represent the whole of Afghanistan. If the museum is there (in the provinces), and there is some work done there, the nation there, the people there in that province, become very happy. They feel they have a part as well. (They will say) I am an Afghan as well. Bringing everything from the outside to the National Museum won’t do. They can’t all fit. So I have this hope that one day we will be able to return the artifacts from other parts of Afghanistan to their museums.

SA: How is the people’s cooperation with the preservation of cultural heritage sites doing? Herat could be an example.

OS: Herat is good. Some cooperation from people has been initiated. In raising awareness among people, you also raise people’s interest slowly.  We say that you can’t make sounds with one hand (music with one hand), right? Two thoughts are better than one, and three is even better. There should be a team to get work done. There should be cooperation.

The National Museum is being rebuilt, a new museum with help from the USA, World Bank, and a few other countries. This in itself is work that will stay for Afghanistan. It is about culture, building culture. Anyone who sees this (the museum) says god bless them that they constructed such a museum. No one will say this is something bad or they did something bad, regarding this. They won’t say they had other interests and such things.

Also, in the Ministry of Information and Culture last year and this year, we want to hold seven seminars. Of course, the most important one for me is about children’s literature and children’s theatre. Of course, another area that I need to tell you about is the local music of Afghanistan. If we don’t do this work, slowly these things will disappear: the authentic culture of Afghanistan and the music that we have.  Today, there is a CD or a recording, if not, if God forbid a Ustad dies, nothing is left after her/him. We try to record these things with good supporters and friends of Afghanistan. There are NGOs (non-governmental organizations) that work, for example, Aga Khan or Turquoise Mountain.  All these things need to be recorded. We need to develop a database. Similarly for satire, for example, there should be a seminar about this. These are things that if we slowly don’t make an effort about, they will be lost. For example, we had a seminar, “Herat in crossroads of history”. We have another that we will hold called “Paktia in crossroads of history”. 

SA:  You talked about the future. What do you think about the situation in the future, particularly after 2014? Are you optimistic?

OS: I am hopeful that things will improve day by day. As I said earlier, we all live in hope for tomorrow, right? If there is tomorrow, but no hope, then, it is not livable, one shouldn’t live. God is gracious. I am hopeful. I think you just need to give the children time.  By 2012, it will be 12 years and then 4 more years (is needed). Once they are educated, I am hopeful that Afghanistan will be a very different country.

SA: What do you think of some of the discussions that have recently come up?  For example, the interaction of cultural heritage and development. Mes Aynak is a prominent example. What are your thoughts on that?

OS: Indeed, Mes Aynak is a prominent example. We worked on an understanding with the Ministry of Mines. Both these things are very important. From one perspective, it is national income. From another perspective, there is cultural heritage. The cultural heritage should not be destroyed and the work on mines which generates national income should not stop. We needed to work with them simultaneously. We considered the priorities of this Chinese company and the Ministry of Mines. And we are hopeful to finish them, with help from the Ministry of Mines. I have no problems with them. They understand…that these things should not be destroyed. We understand this too, and we have a law that we abide by. The law says we should also preserve national income. We should do something so that none of the benefits are lost.

SA: So they (China Metallurgical Group and Ministry of Mines) allow you to visit and monitor?

OS: Yes. We have ongoing excavations there. Please come there and look at what we do. What our young people have done, our archeologists. I am proud of each one of them.

SA: Do we have enough Afghan archeologists?

OS: We do. In the Department of Archeology, there are 23, 24 people, and I hope the numbers will increase this year.

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This interview is part of a series, ‘Untold Stories: the Oral Histories of Afghanistan’s Cultural Heritage’, funded by a Hollings Center for International Dialogue Grant. The series will be available on video, made in collaboration with Kabul at Work, and available on their website at: http://www.kabulatwork.tv/

Cover Photo, Top Left: Omar Sultan, Deputy Minister of Information and Culture.  Photo by Jake Simkin.

By Joanie Meharry and Shaharzad Akbar

Joanie Meharry is currently completing an MA in International and Comparative Legal Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. This summer she lived in Kabul while researching the archaeological site of Mes Aynak with a Global Heritage Fund Fellowship and a Connecticut Ceramics Study Circle Grant, as well as directing the project, Untold Stories: the Oral History of Afghanistan’s Cultural Heritage, with a Hollings Center for International Dialogue Grant. She writes often on Afghanistan’s culture and politics. Joanie also holds an MSc in Islamic and Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Edinburgh.

Shaharzad Akbar is partner and senior consultant with QARA Consulting, Inc. in Kabul, Afghanistan. Shaharzad studied anthropology at Smith College and recently completed an MPhil in Development Studies at University of Oxford.

Shaharzad has extensive media and development work experience in Afghanistan. In 2005, she was the journalism intern for the book Women of Courage. Reporting for the book, she traveled across Afghanistan to meet and interview active Afghan women in all sectors. She has also worked as local reporter for BBC for Afghanistan, producer and host of a youth talk show on radio Killid and writer and editor for several Afghan magazines and newspapers. In 2009, Shaharzad worked as a senior analyst and reporter for the principal domestic elections observers group in Afghanistan. She has also played a lead role in organizing several national conferences and events, most significantly the Afghan-Pak Joint Peace Jirga in 2007.